Thursday, September 10, 2009

In an attempt to bait Ed Cognoski into posting SOMETHING for the month of September, I give you, Tom Bache-Wiig's response to my Muslimayhem...

-with permission of course. Because who can resist dirty jokes AND theology lessons all wrapped into one?!?

(So go ahead Mr.Cognoski, rape/pillage, do whatever it is you do with Bache-Wiig fodder....you know you can't help yourself)

Destiny,

Amir loosens your lug nuts?! I hope it's still Abram that makes your wheels fly off.

Good, honest post. Couple comments:

1) As Christians, or Messianic Jews who believe that Jesus (Yeshua) is the Savior (Messiah), we don't have to pray five times a day, as Muslims are commanded to do. We're supposed to pray without ceasing. Of course, G-D is practical, and that command speaks to having a heart inclined toward the L-RD in all things ...a prayerful attitude at all times. I fail that, you do, all Christians do, hence the need we ALL have for a Savior/Messiah. We all (Muslims and Christians and “you name ‘em”) are very quick to point each others’ imperfections and hypocrisy. I often hear people say that Christians are not perfect, and are hypocritical – no kidding! What an insightful and incisive conclusion. That’s not to say that because that statement is true that we Christians somehow receive a “pass” for bad behavior (of which there is much, and I “own” my share). The truth in the statement just demonstrates the need we have for Jesus, and His sacrifice for ALL of us. When people say to me, “Aw, the church is just full of hypocrites!” My response is to ask where they think we should be. It’s like complaining about fat people being at the gym. Where would it better fit one’s expectations for “fat people” to be? The ice cream parlor? Burger King?

2) Islam is unapologetically extremely bold an aggressive about world domination. Christians, on the other hand, also want the entire world won for Christ. My personal opinion is that the overall tone and tactics of the two faiths, in securing this shared desire, is quite different (with good and bad apples on both sides).

3) I got to know Amir quite well during the campaign. There weren’t too many people I enjoyed being around more than him. He's a friend, but I, too, questioned his motives, and witnessed perfectly moral and legal tactics with which I didn't agree – ones that are just not cool in my book. However, we all made mistakes in the campaign (me getting less than 9% of the vote was the fundamental error under which all others probably fell for me! Jk).

4) Not voting for an Islamic believer because they're Islamic is not racist. Muslims do not constitute a race. Islam is found in every culture. Muslims are found in every demographic. If someone pulls the "race card" on someone else, using this argument, the first party is uninformed, or unskilled in debate. When this happens, I suggest reminding them that it is the one who "pulls the card first" (using race negatively in any manner) is the one who is displaying racism. Throwing out the word "racist" to get the upper hand in and argument/debate is sometimes called for, and sometimes not. We all must be discerning, calm, rational and thoughtful when this happens in a discussion or debate (unless one IS a racist, then, in my book, they've lost all credibility for social and political intercourse [the use of that unfortunate word is just for you, Dez, to keep the trend alive from the first sentence!). Not voting for someone because of their race or sex, is just plain stupid (and, yes, the proper term here is "sex", not "gender", as uncomfortable as that term is to use sometimes in this context - see the "lug nuts" comment above if your getting the vapors, Destiny).

5) I’m sure it was just a throw-away joking comment on your part, but Abraham of the Bible (Old Testament, or the “Tenach”) was not killing his son because he became a Christian. G-D asked Abraham to sacrifice his son for one purpose – to prove to Abraham himself, that he had the faith (not to mention chutzpah) to go through with it in obedience to G-D. G-D didn’t need to “find out” if Abraham had the faith…G-D’s omniscient. If G-D doesn’t already know stuff like that, them I gotta REALLY “rethink my thinking” on Him, you know?! Abraham had to plum the depths of his own faith and willingness to obey G-D, if he was really going to believe in himself enough to pull-off what G-D was asking – be the earthly father of G-D’s people! Ever said to yourself after succeeding at a particularly difficult task, “Wow, I can’t believe I accomplished that!” And from that comes the boldness to go the next thing, and so on.

6) Personally, I was never treated with more respect and genuine kindness than when I spoke at the Mosque here in Richardson. They are terrific people. But, as a believer in Christ, and, thereby a supporter of and believer in Israel, my personal inclination to vote for a Muslim is dimmed in the light of, at the very least, Islam’s questioning Israel’s position on what Israel considers its G-D given land (I am aware of the Islamic argument for the same case in its favor, too). Worse than that, at the very core many Muslims’ personal faith (possibly not all), is the question of Israel’s right to exist in any form. This conflict was first brought to light for me by Chuck Eisemann. Over coffee, way back in December, we had discussed my faith. His genuine response was to ask how I would be able to work and get along with a Muslim (…should one run and win). My answer then was in the affirmative – no problem, whatsoever. The Richardson City Council is never going to be voting on Israel’s or Palestine’s right to exist. We’re dealing with transfer stations, bad sidewalks and a perfectly good retaining wall behind a doctor’s office that’s scheduled to be replaced as a “thank you” for political endorsements and support. How would it be to work with Amir, had I made it onto the City Council? I would’ve loved every minute of it. Amir isn’t the one who made a big deal out of being a Muslim. I did witness / over-hear him cashing in a little of the “Muslim equity” when, on the campaign trail, he would run up to fellow Muslims to hand them his brochure, and say things like, “We’ve gotta stick together.” But, guess what. I tapped into a little of my own equity, and did that with Christians, too. Both Amir and I genuinely reached out to the Muslims, Christians and Jews alike in order to court their votes. I believe we found all of them to be very genuine people, who care about Richardson.

7) But decisions about who to vote for need to be reached after looking closely at one’s own core beliefs, and if they are compatible with the core beliefs (if you can ascertain them) of the one who seeks our vote. We should judge adherents to a faith by their actions. What has been done in the name if Islam, and what are Muslims willing to do to insure world domination? To what conclusion does the preponderance of evidence lead one to in answering this question? To be fair, let’s compare and contrast Jews’ and Christians’ motives and tactics toward the same end. If one’s choice for whom to vote is based on “likability” and personality alone, then that person is choosing poorly. They are making their decision in very murky, choppy waters, bobbing along without a rudder in the Sea of Subjectivity – but that’s how most of us choose, frankly.

10 comments:

  1. I think we can boil down the difference between Islam and Christianity in a single word - love. Jesus preached love of our fellow man AND our enemies. LOVE.

    Islam preaches that if someone doesn't convert, they should be given a second chance and then killed. EVIL.

    Jesus was a bringer of love and joy and kindness. Frankly, I'm not seeing much of that in the Muslim world.

    On Friday - Sept. 11 - let's remember how things could have been different if those men had simply accepted Christ into their hearts.

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  2. Funny, Chuck Eisemann, when interviewed in the DMN after the election about his Richardson Coalition, noted that he wanted "more diversity" on the city council. He's such a liar and hypocrite. How could he want more diversity when he backed NO women, minorities or anyone under the age of 65 in this last election!

    Of course, then only exception to this was his support for our Islamic friend Amir. Obviously, Chuck is no student of history - or student period. He is a foolish man.

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  3. Ed won't post until Gary and Chuck tell him what to say.

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  4. "Islam is unapologetically extremely bold an aggressive about world domination. Christians, on the other hand, also want the entire world won for Christ."

    Man, you are so close to the truth here. So close. Nearly there. Madge would say 'you're soaking in it'. But still no cigar. You can see it's a contest but still believe one side has some kind of moral/theological high ground.


    "Not voting for an Islamic believer because they're Islamic is not racist."

    Technically correct. It's xenophopic and parochial.



    "What has been done in the name if Islam, and what are Muslims willing to do to insure world domination?"

    What has been done in the name of Christ, and what are Christians willing to do to insure world domination?

    Feel free to use the words 'crusade', 'inquisition', 'gunpowder plot', 'bosnia/n.ireland', 'Lord's Resistance Army', 'army of god', and 'christian identity' in your response.

    I am neither Muslim nor Christian, and I am tired of getting caught in the political and social crossfire of people who choose to rally around their own klan rather than live peaceably and civilly around their neighbors.

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  5. I am Christian, and I feel that I do live civilly around my neighbors. Do I not? Have these last two posts made me a hate monger?

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  6. bloggermouse, when you begin hearing the inman from the mosque calling his worshippers to prayer 4 times a day from your house, when you see covered women at every turn, when your local government is dominated by muslims, you'll reconsider your response above - you will be a stranger in your own city - or country. Go ask the former residents of Hammtrack, MI about how they let this very thing happen in their city.

    Liberals today celebrate diversity, but they will be stangers in their own country soon. And, we aren't talking about skin color, we are talking about religion. Most of the terror in this world today is carried out in the name of Islam. You can talk about the crusades, etc., but it has been Christians for the most part throughout history who have been persecuted. In modern times, this has been done by muslims.

    OK - now, today, you have the first muslim, Amir Omar, on the city council. Congratulations Chuck Eisemann, Gary Slagel and their Richardson Coalition. Sadly, these old goats don't realize that they've sold their city down the river; in 10 years you won't recognize this place - and it won't be for the good. And, they'll be gone or in the nursing home, so it won't matter to them. Some great visioning there, Chuck and Gary.

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  7. Sorry, that was snippy, whether it came through in the text or not, and I didn't mean for it to be.

    Maybe posting this stuff was a bad idea, but I really did want answers. I feel to some extent I have been brainwashed on this issue, and have not allowed equal time from the other side. That's all I was trying to do, not rally together a bunch of hateful comments.

    Unfortunately though, I have yet to get those answers so all I can go on is what I have been taught. Does that mean I hate all Muslims and will try to convert them, um, no. It means nothing will really change.

    I guess I was just looking for some simple answers that might help me understand it all a little better, and perhaps help some of the readers as well.

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  8. I look around at the countries of this world - the ones with no democracy, the worst human rights records, no women's rights, no freedeom of speech - I see nations that are overtly anti-Christian - and are predominantly Muslim. In many Middle Eastern countries, you can be killed if you become a Christian. Huh? Is this what we want in our country? I'm fine with diversity, but when it comes to religion, that's another story. Call me xenophobic - whatever - but I'd just same I'm realistic.

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  9. I think it's healthy to ask these kind of questions. It's one of the benefits of a free and open society.

    Destiny, I don't think you will ever be able to find easy answers on something you feel such a deep conflict with... I've learned over time that when something makes me uncomfortable, that personal response is important.

    Maybe the better question is "why" you feel the way you do. For me, it's the fundamental fact: whereas I can live happily with my faith amongst many faiths, in the case of Islam, they can't do the same. It's third strike, and off with your head.

    But, that's just me.

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  10. Destiny - wasn't talking about you here. You are far from a hatemonger, which is why I come here for your conservative opinion. I value your opinion and respect your willingness to think out loud in front of the readers.

    Anon -

    I hesitated to even engage on this.

    > when you begin hearing the inman from the mosque
    > calling his worshippers to prayer 4 times a day from > your house,

    I do. I live quite near the mosque.

    I think this is not an Inman (or Iman) singing the Call to Prayer, I think he is called Muath-something.

    I do not see any qualitative difference between the call to prayer and church bells. Neither bother me. Both remind me to be mindful of my own faith.


    >when you see covered women at every turn, when your

    I do, on my block.

    I do not find burkhas more objectional than, say, Pentacostal hair, Jewish yamulkes, Catholics with ashes, etc. It just doesn't bother me.

    Last Halloween about half the kids that came to my door were muslim. Many of the girls were covered, and were wearing costumes like fairy or princess /over/ the burkha. Delightful children, each group shepherded and guided by the eldest child. The muslim children were the most polite and well-behaved demographic group of the night. I will leave it at that.

    If our city gets "taken over" by this group of folks then judging by these children we could do far, far worse.

    >local government is dominated by muslims, you'll

    Are you aware what this language sounds like?

    Our local govt has plenty of problems; religion is not one of them.

    > reconsider your response above - you will be a
    > stranger in your own city - or country.

    This is a nation made of immigrants. It will, by definition, change over time.

    It is their city the way it is my city. My religion does not confer upon me (or you) any special rights. It does not confer upon Muslims any special responsibilities or lower status.

    > Go ask the former residents of Hammtrack, MI about
    > how they let this very thing happen in their city.

    What? They didn't put up walls here in the land of the free? Poor planning, I would think.

    My instinct is that the influx of Bangladeshi immigrants into Hammtrack is probably raising the education level average in that depressed little town.

    >Liberals today celebrate diversity, but they will be
    > stangers in their own country soon. And, we aren't

    It's not my country to restrict, or yours either.

    > You can talk about the crusades, etc., but it has
    > been Christians for the most part throughout history > who have been persecuted. In modern times, this has > been done by muslims.

    I am not sure that we mean the same thing by "history". It does not mean "things I heard, and now repeat because they support my position".


    > OK - now, today, you have the first muslim, Amir
    > Omar, on the city council.

    Good. I voted for him, and his religion was not one of my deciding factors.

    > they've sold their city down the river; in 10 years
    > you won't recognize this place - and it won't be

    A few years ago the battle cry would have been against Mexicans. Can't we hate just one group of people so I can keep up?

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